James Gunn on Unfinished Screenplays: A Deep Dive Discussion [Podcast]
In this casual conversation, John Schramm and Danny Murray dive into James Gunn's recent comments about the film industry's core problem: unfinished screenplays. The discussion explores why major studios with unlimited resources still struggle with script development, the disappearance of mid-budget films, and how the current system creates "Frankenstein monster" scripts through excessive notes and committee development.
Key Takeaways
• The Real Problem: According to Gunn, poor box office performance isn't about home theaters or streaming—it's about story quality and unfinished screenplays
• Studio System Breakdown: Major studios announce release dates years in advance without finished scripts, creating pressure to rush into production
• The Missing Middle: Mid-budget films with strong development teams have largely disappeared, leaving only ultra-low budget indies and massive tentpole productions
• Development Hell: Too many decision-makers giving notes creates "Frankenstein monster" scripts that lose coherent vision
• The Solution: Screenwriters should focus on extensive rewriting—aim for 10+ drafts rather than rushing to market with early versions
• Opportunity for Writers: If James Gunn can't find finished screenplays at major studios, there's clearly demand for well-developed scripts
Full Transcript
Participants:
John Schramm - Head of Development, Kinolime
Danny Murray - Creative Executive, Kinolime
John Schramm: Hello everyone, welcome to another Kinolime discussion. Actually, it's not another, we're just gonna randomly talk about anything.
Danny Murray: Yeah, it's not.
John Schramm: Actually, I saw your coffee cup and I was thinking we should do Kino with coffee or coffee with Kino, but right now we're just two Kinolime employees talking about the film industry. And what I wanted to talk about today was this James Gunn article that came out yesterday about how he believes that the film industry is making bad movies or is not being successful not because of various reasons except for unfinished screenplays.
But I want to get into this article because when I woke up yesterday I read it and I found that very interesting because it's something that in my experience as a producer and writer, I've seen throughout the business, right? I've seen production companies trying to push through screenplays that just don't feel baked enough that they're not there. But I'm thinking, you know, was it just me being a perfectionist and wanting always the best but to have, you know, James Gunn talk about that I find that very fascinating, right? The head of essentially the co-head of DC studios and created some of the best films we've had in the last 15 years or so.
But before I give you my take on it, I wanted to hear from you. You watch everything, you're in the cinema constantly, you're my go-to movie guru. So what do you think about this article and especially about unfinished screenplays?
Danny Murray: Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts that immediately come to my head about that, the first one being that if your distribution model for releasing films is to be like, this movie that we don't have a script for yet is coming out in three years, then, you know, they tell you the next ten movies they're going to make before they have scripts done for them.
So, yeah, that feels like a kind of ridiculous model. I understand at that point it's less about the movies and more so about like, you know pumping stock value for like one of the biggest corporations in the world, which is a bit different. So like I guess when I had that thought about it, it immediately just made me sad that there aren't like mid-budget movies that you know have like strong development teams around them that spend years developing and doing all of, like, the kind of work that is done for a movie like this in post or rewrites or notes and then reshoots afterwards in the development phase before you actually shoot.
Yeah, there aren't that many of them. There's, like, you know, auteur driven, like, three to five million dollar movies, and then there's these, like, machines that are worth $400 million that don't have finished screenplays while they shoot, so.
John Schramm: Which is so interesting because I'm trying to unpack it. I'm like, all right, what does he mean, right? So is it that, okay, let's talk from a studio perspective, right, you have this machine and you gotta get the next Superman out. And so you get a screenplay from you hire writers, you pay big money and now you have 30 other decision makers coming in and Frankensteining this thing together. So does he mean that when he receives it, that because it's a Frankenstein monster, he's viewing it as not finished because it's not polished, it's not there, it's not like, I don't want to say a singular voice, but maybe a singular vision on the page.
Is it that there are just the writing quality isn't that great anymore? And because there's so much need for, and I'm going to use the word content, need for content that there's just not enough writers that are, I don't want to say qualified, but not enough great writers to go around so you're left with maybe writers who their skill set isn't quite there yet and you're getting unfinished material?
Or is it, and this is something that I've seen first hand is that, but I don't think this would apply to DC, that's why I'm a little shocked is that most people just want to get into production, right, they get a screenplay. Maybe they have financing and they just want to shoot. They like they're like and we'll fix it in post meanwhile you can't do that with a screenplay right because that's the blueprint so I think my opinion is that that's one of the reasons is that they're just so quick to make something but from the DC head that's a little different because they have their set timetables.
So I don't know it's really fascinating for me to see that coming from his mouth. What I try to do here at Kinolime, at least my mantra, is that the script has to not be perfect. It needs to, like Tarantino says, it's the Bible, right? We, anything we're developing outside the competition, we have to, and as you can tell, 'cause I'm annoying with it, but like notes, and we have to really hone it in, because once we get that blueprint, then we feel confident to go make the movie. I'm not in a rush to get into production. I would love to, but like you get one shot and I don't understand, I've been, since I started in the business, why do people rush to production with an unfinished screenplay?
I mean, I've heard stories where like they literally don't have a third act, but they're like, we got to go. We have financing, we have tax credits, we got to shoot this. And I get that. You got to sometimes go to war with whatever battle plan you have, but I just find it so shocking from a head of a major studio that has the unlimited amount of resources to hire the best writers to get the best teams in place that he's still saying is unfinished screen plays.
Danny Murray: When I think about my role, you know, being new in development relatively is that like, you know, the sheer amount of time we put into arguing about a screenplay and thinking about it and how we could shoot this before we option it. And then afterwards, the billion pitch meetings we have with directors and then how they think they want to change this and make their take and then how we think we could make that into a film. There's so much time that goes into thinking about something as an already finished property and then how we could make that better before we even consider shooting it.
It is weird that it seems like that model of really honing in on having a perfect screenplay, something you could truly go to war with by itself is like not how—
John Schramm: It's a lost art.
Danny Murray: Someone with, yeah, like a $300 million budget is thinking about that.
John Schramm: And I get the machine. I get you have dates, you gotta hit and release dates. I totally get all that. But I find that just like, well, what I love about it actually is he talked about in the article. It's not about the box office experience, right? The second thing he mentions, it's not about the home screens, right? 'Cause you hear that all the time, oh, it's the movies, it's the TV screens at home. They're so amazing. Everyone's we've got surround sound, they're not going to theater. He's like, no, no, no, it's the story.
I mean, I love that he's boiling the common denominator. What he's trying to say is the note under the note is it's about story. He's essentially saying from my perspective is that he's saying, I think the stories suck. And I'm like, yes, I completely agree with you on that one, Mr. Gunn. It's like the modern movie stories are really subpar to me. Like they just are on the whole. I'm not saying that there's not great films that come out because there are but I always play this game like pick a date like go like you know like spin a wheel 1979 look at the top movies that come out that you really like you can't compare to modern-day movies you just can't do it.
And I watched for the first time finally last night Anora. I know that you know you love Sean Baker there and he's an amazing filmmaker but I was a little underwhelmed with Anora in the sense that like Oscar winner, you know, Best Picture like swept the awards. Well, like I felt yeah, and I felt like if that came out in like 2005 that just it wouldn't have done that and I and again the bar is changing and that and I get no disrespect to Sean Baker, you're amazing. It just didn't feel like that type of film and the story felt a little lacking to me honestly, you know, but I appreciate the film as a whole. I'm not trying to analyze I'm talking about the story.
Danny Murray: Yeah, it's like that type of movie I think I was talking about where you know your low-budget films now. It's like it's like you're either getting like a fully auteur controlled, yes, this is my vision singularly, yes, or you're getting $400 million goop with like a hundred and fifty million dollars in producer fees you pay two actors a hundred fifty million dollars and then the writer gets a hundred thousand.
John Schramm: Yeah, you're right, it's 100,000.
Danny Murray: That's the funniest thing. The writer is always getting the shaft.
John Schramm: Before you shoot anything, like you're above the line fees are like $200 million.
Yeah, like that to me is, like, okay. What I think, 'cause what he said where I don't think it's about home theaters, I don't think it's about, you know, I think it's just about the quality of the story primarily. I don't know if I totally agree with that because like, you know, what these major studios have done is like, you know over the last 20 years like their development staffs are like a fraction of what they used to be.
Danny Murray: Yeah, that's true.
John Schramm: They don't make mid-budget films. They've conditioned audiences to like I was talking to someone who compared it to like going out to eat where it's like, you used to just, you know, go to a Sizzler or I mean, but like, you know, you go to like Applebee's or something like twice a week with your family and like you dress up and go to Red Lobster, right? And like in the same way people don't do that anymore, right? Like people just like either eat like fast food or like they go to a really nice restaurant. It's kind of the same thing right where like big studios have conditioned audiences to like kind of just go to like this premiere event yeah you know that costs like the GDP of like small Caribbean islands right and like they've slowly over like probably like 10 to 15 years like conditioned audiences just to go to the theater less yeah and that like there's less budgets budgets and types of movies for them to see. I think it's that. I think it is home theaters. And then I think it is just like, with the way that tech has kind of taken over film in the same way they've taken over every industry, where like, you know, they spend a lot of money at first and take over a market share and then just like, make everything worse until they could kind of mold it in their own image. Like, I think we're kind of there now where like you just get a couple of huge movies and they like look at films as data, right? Which is everything feels lame and they've kind of concluded that, let's just make 300 of these massive movies.
John Schramm: Sure, but again, I just, I still can't wrap my head around how a big studio is having unfinished screenplays, I'll go up the ladder. I just, there's a faulty system in place that is preventing from screenplays becoming finished. I just find that, I get on the smaller scale. I get if you're a young producer or a producer that just needs to make a movie, 'cause you gotta get paid, you gotta feed your family. Sean Baker talks about that at his DGA acceptance award, about that they need to make more money. So I get that, you get a screenplay that maybe's there and you go to war with what we got because we gotta make a movie. I can understand that but I never understood the studios complaining about lack of story I just I don't you have unfathomable amount of resources like you can get to any great writer or any I mean you have the bandwidth to cultivate and harvest the very best stories out there and I just don't understand it unless it's you know we could put the blame on the development executives that don't know how to develop or the or what they're targeting but it's just, I think that's a big, what he said is pretty wild. I don't know. I found that really provocative.
Danny Murray: There's something like, I was talking to someone who, you know, is like in a position like I am at one of these like larger studios where, you know, like where a lot of the work we do before you shoot anything, you know just like constant notes on the story and discussing and thinking like that's what they do like that work primarily is done for them once they have something to look at sure is like where they really get to put their paws in and then yeah you get this like ridiculous feedback loop where there's like, you know 10 to 20 people who feel like it is their obligation as part of their job to give notes say something and put their stamp on it yeah, and then like and then by the end of it, you just have some kind of smorgasbord of people who are trying to—
John Schramm: It's a Frankenstein monster.
Danny Murray: It's a Frankenstein monster. Yeah, and everyone's scared to get fired or green light, something that they do for tea. That's always the fear.
John Schramm: But I guess the silver lining in this to all the writers out there is, if James Gunn is saying that he can't get finished screenplays, then like go write, right, right, right, right, right, like just write. Get your screenplay finished because James Gunn may make it. If he's turning down unfinished screenplays, he clearly wants. I say, and I'm laughing at this, but it's remarkable that we're at this place that he's literally complaining that he's getting sent unfinished screenplays. Or that movies are being made from unfinished screenplays.
Danny Murray: Yeah.
John Schramm: I find that crazy. I'm sorry.
Danny Murray: Do you have the, like a story of just like the most ridiculous thing you've been asked to like give notes on or re-write?
John Schramm: I mean, so many of like how to, you know, you always get notes from producers or directors to shoehorn something in that like just doesn't make sense. But like, I remember talking to Oliver Stone about this one time about the screenplay and when he's like, how does he know when he's ready? He's just, I think he said something like, it's just ready, like it's just ready, but the thought of him going to war with an unfinished screenplay is, again, unfathomable to think of. Like this man is an Oscar-winning screenwriter, Oscar-winning director, like, yeah, try telling, you know, try giving this to Oliver Stone and like go make film on like with an unfinished screenplay. It's like, you can't imagine that.
So I think the key takeaway here is for everyone home is that I don't know when you'll be finished. I guess you'll know, but I think what we can surmise from what James Gunn is saying that your story has to, I found that it needs 10 drafts, right? I always thought I could do it in two or three. I need 10 drafts to get my story done. And I think that's the key here is just keep rewriting, rewriting, rewriting, polish that stone, chip away from that marble. The Statue of David will come out, but you know, there is something to be said about not rushing your screenplay to market when it's not ready. And I think you'll know when it's ready or you'll get some guidance from people in your network, but the key here I would say is to continue to polish, continue to write and rewrite your screenplay, 'cause that's where the real writing takes place. And you know, James Gunn says that he's being sent unfinished screenplay, so clearly people are not rewriting enough and that's my two cents on that.
Thanks for joining. I don't know if you have any parting words?
Danny Murray: No, I think that's a good point is you know if you want to make a movie it's a good idea to write a full screenplay.
John Schramm: Okay. Yeah real quick best movie you've seen in the last seven days?
Danny Murray: Hold on I'm like... Okay, actually, you know what I'm not gonna check my letterbox I'm gonna say like the last half of like once Jack Nicholson appears in Easy Rider. I hadn't seen it I really couldn't care about that movie until then and like a lot of movies and like early Jack like in Jack's career like you know, they're worth watching for him. Sure. He's amazing. Yeah, that's cool. So like the 45 minutes that he's in that movie are like totally worth watching. What about you?
John Schramm: Oh, dude, I saw the French remake of the Count of Monte Cristo that came out a few years ago. It blew my mind. It blew my mind. So good. Like, I highly recommend you go see it. The Count of Monte Cristo. It's incredible. It's like a super hero movie. It's awesome. So I, yeah, I would totally watch that. And I saw Swept Away, which is great too. Oh yeah. So, but I would say Count of Monte Cristo is the best one I've seen in the last week, so.
Anyway, thank you so much for joining us today at Kinolime.com for any information about our upcoming competitions, the final vote here we have coming up as well. We're actually in the middle of it right now to vote for the final three, which can be turned into a film. Go to Kinolime.com, read and rate all three screenplays, cast your vote to win because that movie we're gonna make, and it's gonna be a finished screenplay, I promise you.
Oh, Danny, thank you so much. I'm John Schramm.
Danny Murray: Thank you, John.
John Schramm: Thank you. See you soon, bye.
