Summer Blockbuster Royal Rumble: Can Anyone Dethrone Jaws? [Podcast]
John Schramm and Danny Murray dive into the history and definition of the summer blockbuster, starting with the fascinating origin story of how World War II newsreels inspired the term "blockbuster." After establishing Jaws as the consensus GOAT summer blockbuster, they engage in a Royal Rumble-style debate, each selecting three films from a list of ten iconic movies to challenge Spielberg's masterpiece. Danny champions Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Avengers: Endgame based on their franchise potential and "livable worlds," while John argues for Jurassic Park, Independence Day, and Barbie for their spectacle and cultural impact. Despite passionate arguments, both conclude that Jaws remains the undisputed king of summer blockbusters.
Full Transcript: Danny with John - Summer Blockbuster Royal Rumble
Participants:
John Schramm - Head of Development, Kinolime
Danny Murray - Creative Executive, Kinolime
[0:10] John Schramm: All right. Hello everyone. Welcome to another chat with Danny and John. Every week I'm just going to change the name.
Danny Murray: Yeah, we don't have any coffee.
John Schramm: No coffee. Coffee is done. Danny with John. So today we're going to talk about one of my favorite subjects, the summer blockbuster. We are in the middle of summer. Records are being shattered by F1, Jurassic World Rebirth. We got Superman coming out this weekend. It's like, dude, it's Christmas. Good reviews.
Danny Murray: Very exciting.
John Schramm: That was the whole embargo thing was really interesting, by the way. The whole how it all bad reviews, good reviews, but all the reviews.
Danny Murray: I know. I'm cautiously optimistic. I think it's going to be great.
John Schramm: It's going to be fun. Danny's going to walk us through the history of what the summer blockbuster is. And then we're going to do a Royal Rumble gauntlet style with the GOAT summer blockbuster Jaws against three different movies that we each like that we think could rival Jaws. But first, Danny, walk us through the history of what a summer blockbuster is 'cause you educated me this morning. I learned something new.
Danny Murray: I learned so much about this. It's so exciting. Okay, so the history of movies is that the summer used to be the down period for studios. Never release a movie in the summer. That was because in the 1900s, there wasn't widespread AC. So when people actually previously in America had disposable income, they would leave, they'd go away from the theater, they'd go on vacation. So this Paramount executive named Alfred or Adolf Zucker is like, "We are going to make the movie theater a cooling center. It'll be air conditioned and people will go to the movies." Didn't happen. And they kept just playing films, reruns. There weren't big releases in the summer. No one went.
[1:53] And this started 1929 with the first installation of AC in the movie theaters. So now fast forward to then fast forward to how we actually get the name. So you know executives spent another 20 years trying to figure out why is no one going. Now we are in the 1940s. Before cable television news reels would play before your film and you would get updates about what's happening in World War II.
[2:25] So, and you know beforehand, but what would happen is these executives were sitting and they were watching you know news reels of like the Allied powers bombing city blocks in Europe and Asia. And one guy was so just obsessed with getting people in the theater in the summer. He said, "I want my movies to be like that." And he called it a blockbuster because he was seeing blocks, city blocks be busted and he's like, "We need to make blockbusters, explosive films that people go to." Doesn't work for another 25 years.
[2:54] Then a guy named Steven Spielberg comes along. Jaws comes out and they go, "Do we have a formula here? Do we have layered storytelling that has the opportunity for franchise ability and merchandising ability?" Right? Complex characters that kids can live with. But that happens a little bit later, but let's stop at Jaws because to me and to most people, we did some research. The consensus is that Jaws is the goat. It's the pinnacle summer blockbuster, the definition.
John Schramm: And it's up here. So, I wanted to come up with a game and say maybe it's the contrarian in me, but I was like, let's see if there's another film that could maybe overtake Jaws. So, I put a list together of 10 blockbusters after Jaws up until most recently, which I'll explain. Out of these 10, I want you to pick three. I'm going to pick three. We're going to debate about if it could rival Jaws.
Danny Murray: I'm pessimistic 'cause Jaws is one of my favorite films. But let's see what happens.
[3:54] John Schramm: So, we're going to go list of 10. First, we have Star Wars: A New Hope, the second true blockbuster. Then we go to Indiana Jones. Then we go to Back to the Future. Jurassic Park. My Speed.
Danny Murray: So stupid.
John Schramm: Independence Day. So stupid. Did you hear all the movies you just said? And then you said Speed made big bucks and it was a huge hit. It launched Keanu Reeves career. Put him into action, made him Keanu Reeves. Then Independence Day, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Dark Knight, Avengers Endgame, and Barbie.
Danny Murray: Barbie is a good one.
John Schramm: Okay. So out of these 10, who are your three?
Danny Murray: I think I'm trying to remember what you said. So, Royal Rumble against Jaws. Are we doing like a draft? Like a snake draft?
John Schramm: Just pick three.
Danny Murray: Okay. I would go Star Wars, Indiana Jones. So, I have like the two goats of the summer blockbuster. And then I would just have in a vacuum.
John Schramm: You going Barbie?
Danny Murray: No, the Avengers. Like, you're gonna go Endgame. And it's important to make a distinction why I think which is that what the studio executives see as like what's important for a summer blockbuster: franchising, merchandising, never-ending stories that people are constantly compelled to go to. We're seeing it with Jurassic Park right now. People are seeing an eh movie because they love this world.
John Schramm: So I'm going to go with Speed. No, I'm actually going with Jurassic Park. Independence Day. And I'm going Barbie.
Danny Murray: Taking Barbie in. Why?
John Schramm: Well, we're going to get into it right now. So, first, let's debate why Star Wars could be the dethroner of Jaws. Go.
[5:41] Danny Murray: Easy. I mean, Jaws, as again, when I'm thinking about the summer blockbuster, I'm thinking about something that is eternal, right? You could pump them out. And it's not just this film. Jaws is an incredible standalone film. Jaws 2, Jaws 3, what are we talking?
John Schramm: I like Jaws the Revenge, the third one.
Danny Murray: I mean, sure, but you know, it's like Dennis Quaid. Jaws is kind of like who's a great example of it. It's like the Jeremy Lin of the summer blockbuster, right? It had that moment.
John Schramm: So wrong. It had that moment. What? Get out of here.
Danny Murray: Where it was the greatest thing that's ever happened.
John Schramm: It literally people have not been swimming in the ocean safely since that film. People are I was afraid to go in my pool. It changes culture. Star Wars: A New Hope can be fun, but like Jaws still holds up today.
Danny Murray: No, but no, I'm saying I'm saying Jaws as its own thing. Incredible. But if we're specifically talking about it as a movie franchise,
John Schramm: No, we're not talking. We're talking summer individual film.
Danny Murray: But no, no, but but you can't identify the summer blockbuster, the true summer blockbuster can't just be one. I don't agree with your it has to be something I think if we're looking at where the idea of it was conceptualized from and what propelled the seasonal strategy of distribution to be the biggest films come in the summer. It's for being able to pump films, but franchises help potential run but I think studios just want a hit in the summer. Let's just stick with a hit individual.
John Schramm: Empire Strikes Back or Jaws 2.
Danny Murray: We're not go we're talking about the 10 here.
John Schramm: That's what I'm saying. No, no. So Star Wars: A New Hope to you, Jaws. It can't overtake it.
Danny Murray: Well, again, I think in terms of the summer blockbuster, Jaws standalone perfect film. But come on, you have to look at the other ones.
John Schramm: So then Star Wars off the list. Now we're going to go to mine next.
Danny Murray: No, that's so it got booted off. Jaws took a bite out of the lightsaber.
John Schramm: He took He literally took off Luke's hand.
[7:32] I'm taking Speed over Jurassic Park. I'm going to tell you why.
Danny Murray: Okay. Well, one because it's Spielberg honed his craft with Jurassic Park. I mean, what he created and I just watched this recently, Jurassic Park.
John Schramm: You never seen it?
Danny Murray: No, of course I've seen it thousand times. I used to own the VHS, but I rewatched it. And the spectacle, the what he did to animatronics and CGI at the time and the scope and the score. I mean, again, the score actually, you know, the score Jaws is probably just as good, but Jurassic Park has everything you need in a It even has a little bit of romance. Right. So, I personally think Jaws is the better summer blockbuster, but I would say Jurassic Park could rival that movie going toe-to-toe with Jaws.
John Schramm: I'd take I mean, the thing about, again, if I'm just thinking about the summer blockbuster, I'm thinking about a world that you can live in, right? That you could just sit in forever. You can't sit in Jaws forever. It's, you know, you can sit in, it's an incredible standalone movie, but Jurassic Park, you know, it but the blockbuster is to just I think it's to get people in theater. It's to make big bucks. People get their popcorn and they hang out. So, you want to go by world, that's fine. Jurassic Park, you can live in that world 'cause we just released like the 10th film.
Danny Murray: Okay. So, there's a debate there. Okay. Next up, you're going with Indiana Jones. Tell me why that's better than Jaws for the summer blockbuster title.
[8:53] John Schramm: Same. I mean like same reasons where you know it is you're looking for layered storytelling that you could live in forever and wholly unique characters that like when I'm thinking about a summer blockbuster and like going to the theater when I'm a little kid and my parents need something for me to do in my head the perfect summer blockbuster is a film where I'm spending the rest of the summer trying to be that guy right Indiana Jones is a movie like that, right? And you could totally live in you don't want to be Robert Shaw's character in Jaws. You don't want and again like but the thrills of Jaws like you know it still holds up today still I would actually say it holds up better than Raiders of the Lost Ark. I think Jaws is a perfect movie but as a summer blockbuster you cannot live in it.
Danny Murray: Okay so you want to live in your blockbuster. So talking about living in this is so this next pick was a little bit of a dark horse for me. The more I think about it I think it reeks of summer blockbuster. So Americana Independence Day, bro.
[10:00] Independence Day. About our nation's independence from not only tyranny but aliens. Huge special effects. I mean that scene when the you know the UFO blasts the White House. I remember as a kid being freaked out that that would actually happen. Will Smith one-liners left and right in this welcome to Earth. Well, the curse on the thing, but you know what I'm saying. Great villains. The aliens looked awesome. They were scary AF and made big bucks and I think it was a huge blockbuster because Roland Emmerich destroyed blocks making that film.
John Schramm: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. You know, like on that note, it really took some notes from that executive back in the 40s. Like if you want a good blockbuster, see entire countries just be laid siege. But to argue against myself, which I tend to do, doesn't hold up as well as Jaws.
Danny Murray: No, I agree.
John Schramm: A little cheesy if you've seen it recently. A little bit cheesy. And especially now that you know sharks are swimming closer to shore. Be careful.
[11:07] All right. So, Independence Day is off. Your last one. Avengers Endgame.
Danny Murray: Avengers Endgame for a lot of the same reasons, right? Again, I'm thinking about the entire MCU, the most profitable film franchise ever. Almost all of them are released in the summer. And it gives you a never-ending churn of movies that kids can live in a layered story that can last an eternity just like Star Wars.
John Schramm: But that's just franchise. It's not synonymous with summer. When you think of summer blockbusters, I don't think franchises. I think big bombastic tentpoles.
Danny Murray: But you just said it right. Big bombastic tentpoles.
John Schramm: Yeah, but that could be a standalone film. Question. Did you see Endgame in the theater?
Danny Murray: Everyone saw Endgame in the theater.
John Schramm: Did you see it a second time?
Danny Murray: Yeah, I think I did.
John Schramm: Okay, I will take that as a no.
Danny Murray: Yeah. No, I did 'cause I saw it in Ventura and then I saw it in Santa Barbara. Boom.
John Schramm: Let's just say you're half no, half.
Danny Murray: No, I You're wrong.
[12:09] John Schramm: This my last pick was a movie people re I know. Terrible word. People rewatch this film many many times akin to like a Titanic or a Speed where people just kept going back to the theater. Barbie dude Barbie shook the world two years ago. I can't remember. It was the film everybody talked about. I think it beat Oppenheimer in terms of box office numbers and people kept going back. They started dressing up like Barbies. Moms took their daughters to the theater dress up. I mean it didn't have the explosions. didn't have, you know, like, so it's not bombastic in that way, but was it a blockbuster? It shook the zeitgeist. I mean, come on now. Like Ryan Gosling crushed it. The dance numbers.
Danny Murray: Yeah. It's I feel like that is like the newer blockbuster. Like we've changed. Look, I wanted to go all 90s with my picks, you know? You know, I lived I grew up as a kid in the 90s. I love it. I was going to go I wanted Speed so bad.
John Schramm: Of course you did.
Danny Murray: But Barbie to bring it to present day, Barbie did a lot. did a lot for like the movies and executives now have all been trying to recreate their Barbie.
John Schramm: Yeah. But, you know, Barbie, the problem with Barbie is it it, you know, in terms of summer blockbusters, you know, it was kind of like that. It goes a flash in the pan. It's like it's like, you know, like Kobe and Shaq, right? You can't you can't see Barbie as a standalone thing, right? It's like, no, you you did that because you had that other guy.
Danny Murray: All right, that's a very fair point. So, you don't Oh, that's interesting. So, no way. Barbie would never done the business if it was alone.
John Schramm: No way at all. I mean, it would have been Yeah, but come on.
Danny Murray: Okay.
John Schramm: It's free P&A.
Danny Murray: That's a fair point. with Oppenheimer. No, it was, you know, Oppenheimer, when you talk about a blockbuster, you know, when you talk about blowing some stuff up, but like a movie that didn't have the piggyback was Speed.
[13:57] Real quick, no, we're going to talk about this real quick. For everyone who loves Speed out there, please back me up on this. Like, you know, message us. I want everything on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook.
John Schramm: Wait, like you're talking about like, dude, it launched Keanu Reeves career.
Danny Murray: Wrong.
John Schramm: No, no. Okay. He was in Point Break and Bill and Ted, we know that. What made Keanu Reeves a superstar was Speed. It launched Sandra Bullock's career. Okay, she did While You Were Sleeping before this, but Speed made her the household name. It has one of the greatest premises ever. Like you could pitch this in an elevator and who wouldn't buy that on spec on a napkin. Like the idea is brilliant. Action, romance, suspense, a great villain, Dennis Hopper. Quotable one-liners. They tried to make it a franchise but Keanu didn't want to do it. That to me is like that could rival Jaws. I haven't watched it recently, so I don't know if it holds up, but man, was it fun.
Danny Murray: You're talking about it that like the way you opened it, right? You're like Jaws, Star Wars, Indiana Jones. I know. Speed, but you haven't. First of all, this man has not seen it, so you can't even talk about it.
John Schramm: That's what I'm talking about. You You brought up Speed and watch it.
Danny Murray: The fact is not a movie that I was forced to watch.
John Schramm: Can we have a Speed watch party?
Danny Murray: We could have a Speed watch party, but the fact we're going to watch in the office. It's a movie that I wasn't forced to watch. You weren't born yet means that you were not born yet?
John Schramm: No, I wasn't born when any of these came out. I was even born when Barbie came out, dude. I was like I think I was still in in the womb when that But the point is is you know that alone disqualifies it as a you know, it's not
Danny Murray: I think I think we can agree. Well, maybe you don't agree. I don't think any of these 10 films could overtake Jaws as the GOAT Summer Blockbuster. I think my three would trounce your three. Star Wars is in a on a head-to-head battle royale. Star Wars is like, you know, it's it's a because again, I think it's just as iconic a film and it has it's close never ending.
John Schramm: It was a summer blockbuster for sure, but Jaws changed. I mean, literally Jaws created like besides the term blockbuster, but that's what everybody wanted to make after Jaws. So, we'd love to hear what you think. Go to kinolime.com. Hit us up on Insta, Facebook, Meta, whatever, YouTube, just email us, email us, send us a letter we're waiting for you. Love to know your thoughts on summer blockbusters. If we missed anything, let us know.
And also I would love an argument about who can overtake Jaws, 'cause I don't think anyone can.
Danny Murray: Yeah. And you know, if you just list your hundred favorite summer blockbusters that are more consequential than Speed, that also that'd be great.
John Schramm: Thank you so much everyone here at kinolime.com. Tell us your favorite summer blockbusters and we'll see you next week.
